{"comments":{"1130794":{"pb_id":"3300","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1130794","comment_id":"1130794","member_id":"3300","comment":"Grace Dwyer merits at least a mention on the watch list.","date_added":"Sep 28th 2014, 10:26pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"Joe Lanzalotto","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=3300","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/Joe-Lanzalotto.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"7321"},"1127839":{"pb_id":"3026","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127839","comment_id":"1127839","member_id":"3026","comment":"

<\/a>runhappy, on , said:<\/p>

\nTime based ranking. While I understand courses vary, maybe a bit of a stretch to say the times are pointless? Not looking for an argument, just trying to understand what went into the top 30 if 7 of the top 20 runners with the fastest times are excluded.
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\n
\nIt's an ok baseline to start from but there are too many variables in cross country to only use times for rankings.","date_added":"Sep 26th 2014, 3:52pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"35","email_settings":"7168","email":"chrisnickinson@gmail.com","address":"chrisnickinson","gender":"m","member_id":"3026","member_name":"Chris Nickinson","avatar_location":"av-3026.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-3026.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-3026.jpg","pb_title":"Chris Nickinson","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=3026","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/chrisnickinson.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"35"},"1127806":{"pb_id":"4588","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127806","comment_id":"1127806","member_id":"4588","comment":"

<\/a>DougB, on , said:<\/p>

\nActually Graves IS on the bubble. I think this got pushed into the forum just a little before I was done with it.
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\n
\nOk great - I actually commented on the article before it went to the forum. Graves is only a soph and has already shown a lot of improvement this season. She's on a trajectory to be a national contender in the next couple of years.","date_added":"Sep 26th 2014, 2:39pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg","pb_title":"Scott Joerger","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=4588","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/ScottJoerger.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"388"},"1127709":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127709","comment_id":"1127709","member_id":"44418","comment":"

<\/a>runhappy, on , said:<\/p>

\nDoug, thank you for the explanation. It sounds like you put some good time into this. Over the course of the season, I imagine things get clearer as you gather more data. It will be interesting to see how some of these runners perform at Griak this weekend. Some fast girls in both the Gold and Maroon race.
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\n
\n
\nExactly. So many big races this weekend -- including Griak -- that this picture should become much clearer by Sunday. Anna French, the Hasz twins, can they beat Samantha Ortega from Saugus? Lots to sort out there.
\n
\nI understand some other girls have run times that put them high on lists ... but I'm more interested in whether they've beaten anyone on this top 30 list.","date_added":"Sep 26th 2014, 3:12am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"1127708":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127708","comment_id":"1127708","member_id":"44418","comment":"

<\/a>GeorgieTheK, on , said:<\/p>

\nMethinks they underestimate her.
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\n
\n
\nI'll be honest with you guys. When I found out she was running for Heritage and she stopped to tie her shoes twice and still almost broke a course record ... I thought wow...maybe I should just insert her at No. 1.
\n
\nBut I talked to her new coach on Monday. He doesn't think she took any sort of rest period after World Juniors. That, combined with a massive adjustment to a new life (and whatever led to it, which I have no idea of), makes me feel like maybe she's not that 9:12 girl right now. She could surely get back to that at some point, but I'm not convinced she's going to blow the doors off everybody this fall. So that's why I decided to go a bit conservative with her. Saturday will reveal more when she runs at the DC XC Invite.","date_added":"Sep 26th 2014, 3:09am","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"1127661":{"pb_id":"43639","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127661","comment_id":"1127661","member_id":"43639","comment":"

<\/a>cerutty fan, on , said:<\/p>

\n9:12 for 3000 is only good for 10th?
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\n
\n
\nMethinks they underestimate her.","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 11:40pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"GeorgieTheK","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=43639","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/GeorgieTheK.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1073375"},"1127658":{"pb_id":"50627","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127658","comment_id":"1127658","member_id":"50627","comment":"9:12 for 3000 is only good for 10th?","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 11:17pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"cerutty fan","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=50627","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/profile.php?member_id=50627","pb_wally_id":"1212787"},"1127653":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127653","comment_id":"1127653","member_id":"44418","comment":"Well I can tell you how I go about it.
\n
\nIn the preseason I identified 100 of the top girls. The intervening weeks have showed that I missed a couple who were deserving, but I started by looking at what all of them have done so far... who they've beaten and who they've lost to.
\n
\nAlthough we do gather top times for rankings, I'm more interested in what a top time means historically on that course. Because not everything is exactly 3 miles or 5K, etc.
\n
\nI took input from the editors of DyeStatCAL and DyeStatIL on how they see the top individuals in the states they cover.
\n
\nI ordered most everyone by their accomplishments so far -- winning big invitationals, beating other top runners, etc. Some people haven't raced yet and so I gave them the benefit of the doubt and kept them where they were or bumped them down just a few spots.
\n
\nI look at several criteria. Recent success. Past history. Proven track times. But it's also still an opinion of where things are right now.
\n
\nI will be honest and say one source I do touch base with is Bill Meylan and his speed ratings (tullyrunners.com). I'm not sure if I believe in them 100 percent, but I sometimes use them to break deadlocks when I feel a few names are more or less equal.
\n
\nI welcome the questions and hope it leads to worthwhile discussion.","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 10:48pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"1127659":{"pb_id":"68642","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"1127653","pid":"1127659","comment_id":"1127659","member_id":"68642","comment":"Doug, thank you for the explanation. It sounds like you put some good time into this. Over the course of the season, I imagine things get clearer as you gather more data. It will be interesting to see how some of these runners perform at Griak this weekend. Some fast girls in both the Gold and Maroon race.","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 11:25pm","nest":1,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"runhappy","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=68642","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/runhappy.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1491801"},"1127647":{"pb_id":"3026","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127647","comment_id":"1127647","member_id":"3026","comment":"

<\/a>runhappy, on , said:<\/p>

\nJust look at the top 20 on National Milesplit, #6Kettel, #8Hurley, #10Ilse, #13Florsheim, #15Hofstad,#16 Frazier, #18Platek, #19 Endsley. I just looked at 5K and did this quick so there may be an error or two but a bunch are not in your top 30. This is fine if you have another method other than the times (course variation) but just curious.
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\n
\nWhich Milesplit lists are you looking at? Their time rankings database or the thought out subjective rankings? Time based rankings for XC are basically pointless.","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 9:53pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"35","email_settings":"7168","email":"chrisnickinson@gmail.com","address":"chrisnickinson","gender":"m","member_id":"3026","member_name":"Chris Nickinson","avatar_location":"av-3026.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-3026.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-3026.jpg","pb_title":"Chris Nickinson","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=3026","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/chrisnickinson.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"35"},"1127648":{"pb_id":"68642","pb_type":"members","likes":"1","parent_id":"1127647","pid":"1127648","comment_id":"1127648","member_id":"68642","comment":"Time based ranking. While I understand courses vary, maybe a bit of a stretch to say the times are pointless? Not looking for an argument, just trying to understand what went into the top 30 if 7 of the top 20 runners with the fastest times are excluded.","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 9:57pm","nest":1,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"runhappy","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=68642","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/runhappy.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1491801"},"1127643":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127643","comment_id":"1127643","member_id":"44418","comment":"

<\/a>Scott Joerger, on , said:<\/p>

\nSurprised that Claire Graves isn't at least on the bubble given that she finished just 4 seconds behind Williams at Woodbridge and 3 seconds behind Ortega at Great Cow.
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\n
\n
\nActually Graves IS on the bubble. I think this got pushed into the forum just a little before I was done with it.","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 8:54pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"1127642":{"pb_id":"44418","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127642","comment_id":"1127642","member_id":"44418","comment":"Umm... like who?","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 8:52pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":{"wally_id":"1082747","email_settings":"4294967295","email":"dbind4@aol.com","address":"DougB","gender":"u","member_id":"44418","member_name":"DougB","avatar_location":"av-44418.jpg","avatar_type":"upload","avatar":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg"},"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-44418.jpg","pb_title":"DougB","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=44418","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/DougB.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1082747"},"1127645":{"pb_id":"68642","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"1127642","pid":"1127645","comment_id":"1127645","member_id":"68642","comment":"Just look at the top 20 on National Milesplit, #6Kettel, #8Hurley, #10Ilse, #13Florsheim, #15Hofstad,#16 Frazier, #18Platek, #19 Endsley. I just looked at 5K and did this quick so there may be an error or two but a bunch are not in your top 30. This is fine if you have another method other than the times (course variation) but just curious.","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 9:41pm","nest":1,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"runhappy","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=68642","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/runhappy.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1491801"},"1127632":{"pb_id":"68642","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127632","comment_id":"1127632","member_id":"68642","comment":"Some of the top runners on milesplit are not on this list. Just curious as to the methodology.","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 7:36pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"i\/no_avatar.png","pb_title":"runhappy","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=68642","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/runhappy.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"1491801"},"1127626":{"pb_id":"4588","pb_type":"members","likes":"0","parent_id":"0","pid":"1127626","comment_id":"1127626","member_id":"4588","comment":"Surprised that Claire Graves isn't at least on the bubble given that she finished just 4 seconds behind Williams at Woodbridge and 3 seconds behind Ortega at Great Cow.","date_added":"Sep 25th 2014, 6:59pm","nest":0,"liked":false,"member":[],"can_delete":false,"item_id":285185,"item_type":"news","pb_image":"\/\/www.runnerspace.com\/forum\/uploads\/av-4588.jpg","pb_title":"Scott Joerger","pb_url":"profile.php?member_id=4588","pb_url_dns":"https:\/\/ScottJoerger.runnerspace.com\/","pb_wally_id":"388"}},"last_id":"1127626","url":"comments.php?item_type=news&item_id=285185&item_url=profile.php?member_id=4588"}